The room was bright and we could hear people walking around and talking outside. That's the major difference :D. Rinzai zen is rather famous for being, as Alan Watts said, more gutsy than other schools. Soto Zen’s vision of Enlightenment or Satori is different than that of the Rinzai school. To me sitting is central. As a group, we sat in zazen for 15-minute increments. In the back of my mind, I feel Zen would slap me in the face with the immediacy I need, but am too afraid to actually mentally confront it. Sometimes light but, nothing ever moving in my field of view. Le zen, dont Rinzai fut la première lignée à prendre racine au Japon, était considéré durant la période Kamakura comme « le bouddhisme des bushi [ 2 ] ». This was a sort of walking meditation, which I had never heard of before. There is a trap here. Since the differences between these two schools is highly debated, I will explain only what I, an English-speaking foreigner, could plainly see as the differences. It is comparable to the experience undergone by Gautama Buddha when he sat under the Bo tree and, as such, is the central Zen goal. They meditate like there is no tomorrow. Chan). Hi every body.... We know that there is two school in Zen, Rinzai and Soto. Re: chan/seon/rinzai/soto differences Also: Differences in Zen and Ch'an In short, both Chan and Zen are generic terms for various teachings and traditions. To practice Soto-zen, I visited the Sojiji Temple in Yokohama. Members in each lineage are displayed in a … Rinzai Zen in Japan today is very much Hakuin Zen, and all living Rinzai Zen teachers are of Hakuin's O-to-kan teaching lineage. Rinzai emphasizes the first definition and Soto emphasizes the second, but each school acknowledges the validity of both. Soto takes a more gradual approach - kind of like a flower opening. Another part about zazen that I had never heard of before was the keisaku. The only sangha around here is operated by two folks that trained under a "Kyozan Joshu Sasaki Roshi" in Rinzai Zen. Rinzai, one of two major Zen Buddhist sects in Japan; it stresses the abrupt awakening of transcendental wisdom, or enlightenment. Read More, There approximately 95,000 shrines and 86,000 temples in Japan. Soto is the passive hand of Zen, Rinzia the active hand. Hoping someone with more knowledge on the subject could provide some information on this. IMO the character of the teacher and sangha matter more than the lineage, though once you get used to one way of doing things it can seem like a lot of effort to switch (like for me, not sitting in front of a wall feels bizarre, but I make do). This past week I had the opportunity to attempt zazen meditation at both a Rinzai-zen school and a Soto-zen school. The differences are in the relative importance in day-to-day practice. Rinzai puts the emphasis on direct intuition (dhyana) of one's Buddha-nature while Soto preaches zazen (sitting Zen) in the faith that the practitioner is already a Buddha. I felt it odd that people were asking to be hit by a stick. I'm not sure it matters much if at all. I have comforted myself in the endless texts of the Theravadans, sometimes content, but at present unwilling to dive directly into the ocean of Zen. Read More, One of the most famous names in Japanese history would be Sugawara no Michizane. That's not what I mean though but rather it's informal. Conversely, Rinzai puts more emphasis on … The Future of Integrated Resorts in Japan. So, what is the difference between... The Rinzai method seems twofold, it confronts the student with the futility of their desire to "make it" by setting up a more rigid and formal system of koans through which they must pass, and by filling it with material designed to confront their tendency to try to think their way out of it. If you see a description of zazen as "just sitting," Soto zen has really taken that and run with it. Also, at Sojiji, you did not position yourself into a ball-shape and you were only tapped twice. Get a koan wrong and you're likely to receive one-on-one instruction on beating as a means of focusing attention, to put it nicely. Zazen is then the natural unfolding of one's Buddha nature. However, I was able to see some significant differences between the two forms of zazen. You're also a bit more likely to end up with a Lao Tzu style answer than Rinzai's more Zhuangzi-like style, if that makes sense. The biggest difference to me was the atmosphere. Under the right conditions, and when cultivating tenderly, the mind will open of its own accord. See also Zen for an overview of Zen, Chan Buddhism for the Chinese origins, and Sōtō, Rinzai and Ōbaku for the three main schools of Zen in Japan. Sōtō Zen or the Sōtō school (曹洞宗, Sōtō-shū) is the largest of the three traditional sects of Zen in Japanese Buddhism (the others being Rinzai and Ōbaku).It is the Japanese line of the Chinese Cáodòng school, which was founded during the Tang dynasty by Dòngshān Liánjiè.It emphasizes Shikantaza, meditation with no objects, anchors, or content. Perfect summation. Die Rinzai-Schule zeichnet sich durch das Zazen, die Gartenkunst, Tee-Zeremonien, Kampfkünste und die Koan-Arbeit aus. The place I'm looking at is: http://www.dharmamountain.org/about.html. It then pairs this with a willingness to get 'down & dirty' in bombastic elements. Dieses ist die offizielle Seite des Soto-Zen-Buddhismus auf Englisch, Portugiesisch, Spanisch, Französisch, Italienisch und Deutsch. One is “to grasp or understand clearly”; the other is “to make real.”. As opposed to what many people may think, in Soto Zen, Satori is not a special state of consciousness. I recommend to practice both of them. e) r/zen is in a terrible shape due in part to misunderstanding of koans. Hard to transmit a decent smack through a book unless there's someone there to pick the book up and really go at you with it. This serves to jar the student right out of whatever comfort zone they think they might be developing. Then, you must lean over and hold both your elbows on the floor, making your body into a ball shape. b) The non-verbal understanding that allows to create koans and to interpret answers is difficult to pass along in a lineage. Neben Zazen und Zeremonien spielt das Herz-Sutra beim Meditieren eine wichtige Rolle. What … With regard to Japanese Rinzai and Soto there are differences — not so much in the Chinese forms of Zen (Ch. This abandoning of the Vinaya Discipline marks a significant deviation of the Japanese Zen tradition from its Chinese Ch’an origin. Là, il séjourne durant un an au monastère de Jingdesi, sur le mont Tiantong, et découvre ainsi l'école Chán Caodong. San Francisco. I appreciate the time it probably took for that reply. L’Éveil ou Satori dans le Zen Soto est différente de celle de l'école Rinzai. Chan). Absolutely opposite, the room at Sojiji was dark and everyone faced the wall. I couldn't really say. The Tokyo Jissha and the Journey to Enlightenment. Definitely go if you can, because you will not find many differences between rinzai and soto anyways. Rinzai s’est implanté durant l’ascension de la classe des bushi, bénéficiant du patronage des shoguns autant que de la cour impériale. I'm currently reading the complete poison blossom from a thicket thorn which is a culmination of hakuin zenjis work amazing stuff!! We all sat on zufu cushions and on elevated platforms. Hybrid Zen: Rinzai and Soto Merged Yasutani Hakuun (born in 1885) was an unusual Japanese student who became a monk at 11 years of age, was ordained (in Soto Zen) at 13, and attained kensho at 42. 3) Soto Zen, the Japanese version of the Chinese … Before sitting down we were instructed how to handle the cushion and how to sit upon it, which was very different from Kencho-ji. Despite what I had previously believed, I was told to keep my eyes open. The role of mediation for both Rinzai and Soto Zen is to prepare the mind for enlightenment. While both Rinzai and Soto are both forms zazen, they are still very different. as far as material differences between the two, you've already identified probably the key difference: Rinzai emphasizes a curriculum of koan practice while Soto does not. Listen to this talk: Suzuki-roshi 69-07-00 . Both are valid and each is necessary for a complete understanding of just what “realization” is. Many of the differences I have found between Rinzai and Soto Zen have to do with practice, although I was not able to find any information on philosophical differences between the schools. Soto is, again to quote Alan, more serene. These are broad strokes I'm painting with. I go to a Rinzai Zen Temple here in Seattle. The monk will then tap each shoulder-blade area twice, making a total of four taps. The most important factors were to keep your back straight, shoulders back, and eyes focused at a 45-degree angle to the floor. Soto Zen emphasizes that meditation, when properly executed, is equally suited for bringing about sudden enlightenment. Read More, If you have visited any temple or shrine in Japan, there is a good chance... The monk will stand in front of you and you will bow to each other. This zazen experience was much shorter, because it was not the only reason I was there. I'd mostly be going just to meet other Buddhists. ), I realize that the differences between the two temples makes Sojiji seem frightening, but this is not at all the case. (This is because when I practiced Rinzai-zen, there were just foreign people so it was for beigner but when I practice Soto-zen,there were a lot of japanese.they get used to do it. It is depend on the person.). Rinzai sits facing the room. I really connect with Sheng Yen's Linji style of Chan, predecessor of Rinzai. The particular style of meditation used by both schools of Zen is called zazen. At Kencho-ji, we sat in a large open space that had doors open to the outside. This was a very difficult position, not only for foreigners, but for most Japanese people as well. Soto says you are already already Buddha, so just sit and let your nature come forth. (This is my expeiemce. Make sure to step over the threshold: Each temple has a wooden section of the... But I have to do something, don’t I. I can’t just sit here. Unless they catch you sleeping when you should be meditating. d) We Westerners believe we have a good meta-understanding of koans which undermines their power. I definitely believe that it is a personal preference on which is better suited for a person, and I would greatly suggest to foreigners that they try both types of zazen so they can experience the differences themselves. Personally I think Rinzai is going to be a better method for most students who actually want to go to a temple and all that, but Soto does away with some chaff that Rinzai's historically used to clear away a lot of the bad ideas students have when they arrive. Hybrid Zen: Rinzai and Soto Merged Yasutani Hakuun (born in 1885) was an unusual Japanese student who became a monk at 11 years of age, was ordained (in Soto Zen) at 13, and attained kensho at 42. Unlike Soto Zen, which is more or less organized under the authority of the Soto Shu organization, Rinzai in Japan is a tradition of informally affiliated temples teaching Hakuin's Rinzai Zen. With some time, I've learned to appreciate a rather more definitive answer and the sudden shock of Rinzai, but then again, Alan Watts never smacked me from beyond the grave and he was a bodhisattva bar none, so maybe the Soto school is onto something. Im Unterschied dazu besteht die Hauptlehre der Soto-Schule in der immanenten, buddhistischen Natur aller Wesen, sowie der Identität von Übung und Erleuchtung. I also have a hard time meditating around others but I think I'd find facing them especially odd if the eyes are open. The most proper sitting position was to sit cross-legged with each foot on the opposite thigh. Cao-dong) from Rinzai R-A (Chin. However, the keisaku is not used as a punishment but rather as encouragement for you to wake up and concentrate. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast, A reddit for all kinds of Buddhist teachings, Press J to jump to the feed. Dans Soto Zen, l’Éveil Bouddhiste n’est pas un état spécial de la conscience mais plutôt un retour à l'état originel de l’être humain. Zoketsu Norman Fischer and Kathie Fischer about Soto and Rinzai Zen. Again I'm not sure it matters much. I felt that the taps were far harder and louder at Sojiji than at Kencho-ji. Another big difference was the keisaku. Bei der Soto-Praxis handelt es sich um eine rezeptive Form des Meditieren, bei der Rinzai-Praxisum eine Meditationsform durch Konzentration. The keisaku, or “encouraging stick,” is a large paddle-like stick that a monk carries around the room. The fit isn't perfect, but the once-born, twice-born model does help to expose certain It's not that Soto practitioners don't use koans--we do--but not as an object of meditation, and not in any sort of formal curriculum. Also Rinzai is a little more intense and formal, Soto is a little more casual and spontaneous. It was crucial to keep your eyes focused and to move them as little as possible. M… But Soto Zen has never discarded the koan. Both Rinzai and Soto Zen Buddhists study koans and practice Zazen. Morning. With regard to Japanese Rinzai and Soto there are differences — not so much in the Chinese forms of Zen (Ch. The class at Kencho-ji focused very heavily on posture and sitting position. It is simply a return to a human being’s original condition. In—in America, between Rinzai Zen and Sōtō Zen there—there must be some clear understanding of—of the two, or relationship of the two. After two sessions, we were asked to walk twice around the outside of the temple while holding our hands in a specific position. At Sojiji, to signal that you want to be tapped by the keisaku, you must tilt your head left, rather than place your hands in gassho like at Kencho-ji. Also in the soto tradition the main lineage is dogen zenjis and his works which include the shobogenzo and shin shobogenzo whereas rinzai more revolves around hakuin zenji and his works which revived the rinzai tradition.